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June 13, 2004

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Ron Hardin

One thing a lefty won't like is the dynamics, namely if air strikes to accomplish X kill fewer civilians, the result will be somewhere between ``more X with the same civilian casualties'' and ``same X with fewer civilian casualties,'' the midpoint position being chosen by policy in response to what's now possible. The lefty assumes it means chiefly ``more X'' and not ``fewer civilian casualties.'' In fact it seems to have come out more toward the other end, but that's a separate fact from the new technological possibilities.

They don't like anything that implies ``more X.''

Walter Wallis

And of course diplomats are all too happy to substitute "Technical means of verification" for the messy dealings of humint. The money saved is called "The Peace dividend."
Wait a minute. How come we don't hear any more crowing about "The Peace Dividend"?

Jos Bleau

The story makes no mention os the 1999 Kosovo War, which featured the bombing of civilian infratrsucture targets in Serbia, with attendant civilian casulties.

Also, I'm wondering how much value the times reporter actually added to the Human Rights Watch report.

For example "An unclassified analysis prepared last month by the Defense Intelligence Agency and obtained by The New York Times describes Mr. Ibrahim ..." Was this obtained via HRW? Some other advocay group? Or through direct contact by the Times with the Pentagon sources?

There's far to many "senior defense official and two former intelligence officials" type quotes that DON'T have 'said to the Times' anywhere near them, also leaving me to wonder if the Times reporter spoke to them directly or if the quotes came via advocay groups.

That wouldn't negate the truth or seriousness of the article, but given the Times' recent problems I think that readers should be given the ability to know just how much actual repportage went into the story, and how much is just low-valued-added advocacy group re-writing.

Joe MacKay

I wonder what the NY Times would've written about the bombing of Dresden with modern reporting capabilities? Or how about Tokyo?

Insufficiently Sensitive

"we will be manipulated into unilaterially renouncing a key advantage we hold over almost every enemy and potential enemy on earth."

Precisely what the NYT wants. That paper thinks it's a member of the 'international community', and that the U.S. isn't.

The paper is so full of frustrated old Marxists that it has constituted itself as the Fifth International, for which its code words are the 'international community'.

May camels devour its subscription lists.

Glenmore

Air strikes are getting more and more accurate, but they still kill people. One innocent death is clearly unacceptable, but I suspect it would still be unacceptable if the ONLY death was the bad guy they were aiming for. No fair trial, for starters. Then, death penalty would be unacceptable.
Replace air strikes with ground attack and you have the same problems. If the bad guys hide behind women and children (and they do!) and one of those kids gets killed, then you committed a crime.
It all comes down to this - war and killing are bad things. Period. And the US must not do them.
This mindset results from generations of easy life and unchallenged idealism. It is rare in human history. It is rare because in the real, Darwinian, world this mindset eliminates itself from the gene pool. If you want your gene line to continue you are going to have to kill at some point, like it or not.

dauber

Glenmore, you're dead on the money -- the only way to eliminate the death of innocents in war is to eliminate war as a tool of statecraft. The problem for some of us, of course, is that we believe that war also saves many, many innocents when the enemy cannot be stopped except through force.

As to the idea that we've forgotten something, I suggest Lee Harris' latest book, Civilization and its Enemies, where he argues the problem is that some people have simply forgotten how to even think about the category "enemy" and insist on thinking of people who want to kill us as people with whom we just have a misunderstanding -- we haven't sat down and had a good chat yet.

athena

This is sorta long, but I posted something the other day about not being able to look at people as enemies, excerpt:

The real enemy is staring us down while we reach outstretched hands. When will we realize that not everyone in this world wants peace? We have to wake up from our slumber where our dreams teach us “love conquers all." Love is not a conqueror, the human spirit is. Loving our neighbors means giving them to means to love one another.

How can we sit idly by when enemies of the human spirit seek to enslave the minds of others through fear, intimidation and death? We can no longer be so self-serving and indignant that we ignore reality when it does not fit into our “comfort zone.”

Self-sacrifice for higher ideals means accepting that the road to these goals is often dangerous and uncertain. Bringing peace to the world is not an easy task. We must accept that there are those who oppose peace, and that no amount of cultural relativism makes that right.

I believe Frederick Douglas said it best with, “The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."

Media Hound

Cori, FYI, TimesWatch has linked to your
analysis of this story:

http://www.timeswatch.com/articles/2004/0614.asp

LVC III

I also read that NYTimes article, and I think your criticism about how we aren't given the history of air power in armed conflict is good and true (see the last paragraph of this email for an ironic twist on this). I think it's even more remarkable that we aren't given the context of the projected casualties in Iraq that were made, as with this example:
http://shorterlink.com/?ROR5QK
long form of this link: http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/e837174ca3856d1cc1256c70003e48d2?OpenDocument
When I read the NYTimes article, I was a little bit puzzled. What was the impetus, or pretext, for this article at this time? There doesn't seem to be any actual "news" in this news. That there were some 50 airstrikes on leadership targets isn't really news; I recall hearing this on a PBS Frontline (or Nova, whatever) a month or two ago. It can't have been the Human Rights Watch report because that was published six months ago. I'm still puzzled by this.
The article says that leadership targets that weren't killed in these strikes are now in leadership roles in the insurgency. I wonder what their point is? If the insurgency was planned before the war, then the failure of the airstrikes could hardly be attributed as the motivation for these Iraqi leaders to lead the insurgency; if we hadn't used airstrikes to try to kill them, then there were no plausible alternatives to use instead (what, we should have parachuted in Special Forces Ninjas?). I think the more salient point is that we've captured or killed 45 of the 55 Iraqi leadership targets; some of the ones that are left are, naturally, leading the insurgency because they haven't yet surrendered, or been captured or killed.
I also noted that the NYTimes quoted the HRW report as saying that the leadership airstrikes "resulted in dozens of civilian casualties that the United States could have prevented if it had taken additional precautions." The report says that the the Battle Damage Assessment by the Pentagon didn't work very well in these cases because the pace of operations exceeded the time it takes to make an effective assessment; HRW then concludes that had this rapid assessment capability been in place, the Pentagon would have realized that the leadership strikes were ineffective and would have probably stopped using them before they'd conducted all fifty. And that is how HRW comes to the conclusion that the civilian deaths were "preventable" - by having a capability to do Battle Damage Assessment faster than was possible at the time. (Next up from HRW: Why the next war should wait until we've either tagged our targets with radio transmitter collars, or issued personal force field generators to everyone except the people we are trying to kill...)
Back to the HRW report - I also found this gem, which, mysteriously, the NYTimes failed to note: "For the most part, the collateral damage assessment process for the air war in Iraq worked well, especially with respect to preplanned targets. Human Rights Watch’s month-long investigation in Iraq found that, in most cases, aerial bombardment resulted in minimal adverse effects to the civilian population."

dauber

Really excellent pt -- where was the news hook for this front page article? It is the case that all their big "there have been civilian casualties!" pieces have been Sunday front page pieces (biggest circ.) this is the one with the least claim to real news.

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